Even Pitbulls Get the Blues: Quinn Emanuel Focuses on Mental Health
Welcome back to Vivia Chen, the Ex-Careerist, and my continuing my series on mental health. Today, I'm talking with Joseph Milowic, Quinn Emanuel's director of mental health.
If you’re an aficionado of Big Law, as I am, you probably have a thought or two about Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan.
No doubt, you know it’s a high profile litigation firm where the partners make a bundle of money. (In 2023, its profit per partner hit $5,229,000, according to The American Lawyer.)
You might also know it’s the pitbull of Big Law. Last year, Quinn Emanuel was named the “most feared” law firm in the land by BTI Consulting Group—its fourth time in the No.1 spot—beating out top contenders Skadden Arps, Kirkland & Ellis, and Jones Day. (The firm embraces this image, touting on its website: “Another year–still most feared. Get us on your side.”)
What you probably won’t associate Quinn Emanuel with is mental well-being.
Yet, the litigation powerhouse wants you to know that it cares about the mental health of its employees. Really.
Recently, I spoke with Joseph Milowic, director of mental health at Quinn, to get the straight story about what the firm is doing on mental wellness and how his personal journey helped shape it. Now counsel at the firm (he was a partner until this year), he’s also the founder of the Lawyers Depression Project, a support organization.
I won’t beat around the bush: Your firm has a reputation for being tough, aggressive, and mean. Do you see how people might find it hard to believe that it gives a hoot about the mental well-being of its lawyers? I mean, no one goes to Quinn for a balanced life.
Quinn is a demanding place but people who work here share a common purpose and that’s a love of trial work. When you look at a place from afar, you have certain perceptions. But upclose, it tells a different story. People try to do their best here, and there are a lot of good things going on.
And how do you fit into the grand scheme as the firm’s director of wellness?
I try to foster a help culture. We have ombudsman roles where people—partners, associates, paralegals, and administrators—are trained in mental health issues. They are the first line. When people have [mental health] issues, it’s not unusual for them to go on leave, which is usually a month or two. There are lots of resources here.
I’m trying to be a hopeful voice. It’s important for people to tell their stories. When I shared my story, I was met with a lot of compassion.
You told your very personal depression story in The New York Law Journal in 2018. You wrote about keeping your depression under wraps for 10 years because of the stigma. So what pushed you to come out about it so publicly?
Depression is not a constant state. I had depression as an associate, then another bout as a partner six years ago. Then I had a spiritual awakening after pulling three all-nighters. I finally slept, and when I woke I had more clarity. I had a shift about what was important to me. I wanted to be of service. I wanted to align my actions with my values.
I find it fascinating that you said John Quinn, the quintessential alpha male, was supportive of you going public about your depression. How did that happen?
John has always been supportive. He’s a good guy. He’s a really unique person. He’s a triathlete, and he’s into well-being. He understands stress and wants people to thrive. He takes his team on hikes. It gets people out in nature and it’s a bonding experience. I think well-being is part of our culture.
Glad you reminded me that John Quinn is quirky. I almost forgot that he has a romantic side—something that came out when I interviewed him about his Museum of Broken Relationships. But back to lawyers: Do you think your depression was brought on by your job?
I’ll never know. Some of it was existential: What is the meaning of my work? Is it fulfilling? Or am I doing it because I have to pay the mortgage? Those ruminations would come and go.
Certain pressures seem unique to Big Law—the billable hour, the pressure to develop business, and the unrelenting demands by clients. Is the profession to be blamed for lawyers’ misery?
Yeah, the billable hour is tough. There’s the tendency to value associates based on the number of hours they bill. Those issues are unique to law but every profession has its own stresses. Lawyers are not unique. There’s a narrative that lawyers are more depressed but that’s not borne out by studies such as the one by Yale. I don’t think the debate about which group is more depressed is that useful. Anxiety, depression is what all humans experience. It's a people issue.
Nowadays, every major law firm and company seems to be on a mental health kick. But can a lawyer, who’s expected to be a toughie, be truly open about these issues and not pay a career price?
I would never say as a blanket rule that anyone should disclose. For me, I was surprised that there was so much support and compassion in and outside of the firm; clients said they were proud of me. It has added more meaning to my life.
But people can voice support yet perceive you differently. Do you think clients and colleagues viewed you the same way after you came out?
I didn’t see it but I was also shifting in my own priorities. At some point, I was not the go-to guy anymore. But I was no longer motivated to be that hard-charging litigator. Sometimes my mind wrestles with this. But the truth is that I was on a different path. It's out of your control how you’re perceived.
Have you emerged from all this as a different kind of lawyer?
I am not doing as much legal work now. But when I was still doing legal work, I tried to be more open minded in interacting with opposing counsel. I think we have the same goal of resolving disputes; we’re all working towards peace.
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Related Post: Meet the Law Firm Leader Who’s Out About His Own Mental Health